FWD Wheelspin/Wheelhop

"Echo51" (echo2047) 07/31/2015 at 04:32 • Filed to: None

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So. I’m not sure if it’s always been that way, but after having the car for 2 years now i notice it’s starting to wheelhop/axlehop really violently if you break traction pulling onto a road, so slight steering input and it pulls in first to wheelspin. Like it almost kicks in the entire car. Googling says it might be the entire engine+transmission loading up it’s mountings, then “unwinding” them in the kick, and the winding them up again, which makes sense because i’ve always fought with the engine package tilting on the mountings.

But another thread i found says it’s due to worn dampers. I got new “OE” dampers on it back when i got it, but one of the rears have started making noise, so they’re probably of questionable quality.

Any ideas/inputs before i suddenly become the owner of a new set of coilovers?

Berang > Echo51 07/31/2015 at 04:49

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What car?

KatzManDu > Echo51 07/31/2015 at 04:53

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Could be a number of things but the 1st culprit would be motor mounts. Beyond that I’d look at suspension bushings and/or suspension mounts if applicable.

random001 > Berang 07/31/2015 at 06:36

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This. Age and mileage can help us diagnose the problem, also a list of what you know has been done. This could be something as simple as you put a new set of tires on, and their traction profile is different, or it could be engine mounts, suspension bushings, a broken sway bar droplink or a bum spring. I doubt it’s the dampers if it’s wheel hop, unless you have enough power to get the front end to lift significantly during acceleration and are unloading the springs.

samssun > Echo51 07/31/2015 at 07:05

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Motor mounts, shocks, or suspension/subframe bushings.

4muddyfeet - bare knuckle with an EZ30 > Echo51 07/31/2015 at 07:09

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My first thought was shocks and tyres, but as other people have said; motor mounts make an awful lot of sense.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Echo51 07/31/2015 at 07:28

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Worn out dogbone?

Echo51 > KatzManDu 07/31/2015 at 08:47

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One guy mentioned “dogbone”, but sadly such a engine mount for preventing directly torque loads is reserved for the bigger engine/gearbox combo’s. So dumb. I’ve replaced the rear gearbox mount which is the one that takes all the load, and it’s helped slightly regarding the rocking my shifter when on/off throttle, but guess it’s not stiff enough. Suspension bushings normally just start giving insane toe changes even under normal on/off throttle conditions, and while braking, but worth a check aswell... Time to look into fudging the a “dogbone” mount onto it then.

Echo51 > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. 07/31/2015 at 08:49

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Wish it had one. Have to make the jump to the bigger gearbox before it was built with one, or the model newer. Maybe that just means it’s time to make something fancy...

mazda616 > Echo51 07/31/2015 at 09:25

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My 3 did this with its OEM tires, which were garbage. Hasn’t done it since I got rid of those.

DogonCrook > Echo51 07/31/2015 at 09:40

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I’m not sure about front wheel drive, but sway bars help on RWD. Might want to check they aren’t frozen and the bushings are good. Are you actually getting wheelop or is it vibration? Do your tires chirp?

I’ve always experienced bad motor mounts and tranny mounts as crap shifts and thuds, not vibration. I would think you could grab the engine and replicate it by shaking it. Or put a Jack under it and if it lifts excessively before it starts to unload the suspension. If it’s the fluid kind and they have failed I’ve heard of people dumping polyurethane in there to make them solid mounts, but I have no idea how well that works. I like replacing with poly on a lot of parts but it can make a DD car pretty obnoxious going with solid engine and tranny mounts, unless you’ve added a lot of power I’m not sure that’s the solution.

Echo51 > mazda616 07/31/2015 at 10:52

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Well im running uniroyal Rainsport 2’s, and it’s really only when provoking them in 1st gear i can get anything, as soon as you get rolling they just hook up, even in pouring rain. <3

Echo51 > DogonCrook 07/31/2015 at 10:54

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Sway bar is in good condition with new bushings when i had the engine out anyway. It’s like it starts to spin the wheel and it starts just bouncing, like it’s skipping off the road, which translates to really loud and eventually violent knocking of the entire front end. As mentioned in the other comments it really lacks a proper mount to deal with the torque forces, which could probably be it...

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Echo51 07/31/2015 at 11:45

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Perhaps haha.

DogonCrook > Echo51 07/31/2015 at 12:08

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Not that there isn’t an engine mount issue, I can’t think of anyway an engine mount can cause actual wheel hop. I could see it feeling like wheel hop, but it couldn’t possibly cause it outside of bizarre extremes. You mentioned the shocks are questionable is there any fluid on any of them? Is this a modified vehicle? Even wheel hop shouldn’t be all that violent. It’s gotta be a shock, bushing, tire issues or even possibly a slightly bent rim, that has worn something out of spec. I could be wrong, but it sounds like two seperate issues, that are now in kind of a feedback loop, or the wheel hop which wasn’t that noticeable before is now way more annoying.

That said engine mounts and tranny mounts can cause damage to both, it even throws tunes off, and can destroy synchros and torque converters, but unless it’s making drastically more power than stock, you probably don’t need to resort to extreme modifications, poly mounts should be more than enough. That’s my 2 cents, I’m not all that familiar with front wheel drive cars that are high horsepower, so if that’s the case grain of salt and all.

Echo51 > DogonCrook 07/31/2015 at 13:17

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130 horses-ish assuming the ECU can compensate. Funny you mention a bent rim, but that’s on the rear axle... Man i have alot of stuff to look at on that car :-/

DogonCrook > Echo51 07/31/2015 at 13:37

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I could see that causing it honestly. Wheel hop, is usually not actually a hopping wheel literally. It’s traction building and letting go, it doesn’t even have to slip, the contact patch might just be changing rapidly. A FWD car relies on the rear suspension a lot to keep the front from unloading. FWD drag cars use crazy stiff rears. So again I’m not well versed in FWD tuning but that seems plausible. It’s a pain but a good poly kit for all your bushings will probably clear it up. You could up the psi in your tires all around and it might be less violent in the meantime, and give you a better idea of where it’s coming from.

Echo51 > DogonCrook 07/31/2015 at 14:53

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It’s a mostly stock street car, but the front control arm bushing do have a reputation for lasting a year tops actually. I’ll stick a prybar in it over the weekend and figure something out...